25 Jan 2018 17:57:39
The next stage of rebuilding Fortress Forest surely has to be us being one of the first English clubs to introduce safe standing back at the City Ground to improve the atmosphere and capacity as AK's Army starts to march.

Rip out the seats in the Lower Bridgford and create a home and away segregated terrace standing area to make both ends of the ground intimidating to the opposition?

COYR's.


1.) 25 Jan 2018
25 Jan 2018 18:27:35
Don't suppose you were at Hillsborough all those years ago. I will never forget what I saw.


2.) 25 Jan 2018
25 Jan 2018 18:40:38
Gazzibaldi- as hard as it is with awful events of the past and I’m sure you’ve got some awful memories of the day like thousands of others but hillsborough was caused by actions of several different groups of people and nothing to do with the possible ‘safe standing’ areas that hopefully will make an appearance soon


3.) 25 Jan 2018
25 Jan 2018 18:42:53
Gazzi, let's not go there. I'm with Red, SAFE standing zones. We have moved on massively, a small scale trial I hope would be seen as progress and not disrespectful.


4.) 25 Jan 2018
25 Jan 2018 18:46:59
All day for me I pay for a seat at away games and have to stand up cus no one will sit down so no difference except be cheaper.


5.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 00:05:15
Oh dear FF. Think about the bigger picture. Not just your wallet. It only takes ONE moron to start pushing and shoving and god knows what will happen.


6.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 06:58:06
Why do we need to increase the capacity?


7.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 07:26:51
Gaza it's a lot safer standing on a terrace if you get pushed than having a seat in front of you and having to stand because no one will sit down.
I was at Hillsborough too before you ask,we have far stricter safety measures since that awful day,

{Ed001's Note - it is not safer, that is nonsense. You can't get the crushes that still occur regularly at standing events, whether it be a concert or a football match, people die on a daily basis due to being crushed regardless of the stricter safety measures now in place. Anyone involved in emergency services will tell you it is much easier and safer to control a crowd in a seated environment. For starters it is much easier to keep check on numbers when everyone has a seat allotted to ensure there is no overcrowding in an area. That is still a problem at events, ensuring people don't try and force their way into the same place as everyone else is already in. It is a problem at the likes of Glastonbury as well as football matches.

There is no such thing as safe when you have large crowds of people, sadly. Humans are just not trustworthy, sensible creatures when they are in a crowd.}


8.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 09:00:17
Gazzi

I was there on that day at Hillsboro and the 3 factors of poor ground design, police incompetence and fans without tickets combined to cause that tragedy.

The world has moved on and safe standing works in Europe and will happen. We have a ridiculous situation in our stadiums where away fans stand in seating areas and home sections like A Block stand for most of the game forcing everyone around them to stand for a seat they have paid for. Therefore the safety argument does not stand up and you cannot force fans to sit. Modern ticketing controls numbers and prevents over capacity.

The atmosphere would improve dramatically and standing for younger fans is almost a right of passage to get to our age where we want the comfort of a seat to watch a game?


9.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 09:14:41
All I know is I'll feel safer standing on proper terraces at Burton than I will in the upper tier at Fulham with the whole floor shaking underneath me with everyone standing up and bouncing around.
Glastonbury is different,It's not a stadium it's a field


10.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 09:20:25
obviously it is different, it is safer in a field as you don't have to worry about the slope driving people down into a crush. One of the big problems is steps, as people trip and fall to be trodden on or causing a panic, there are none of those in fields to worry about.


11.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 12:17:27
Just the knee deep mud and the lunatics with their missus on their shoulders,not to mention the smell,but they have a good time


12.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 12:36:00
Ed its not safer in a field if everyone in that field wants to get to stand in one area of it - ie. directly in front of the stage. In football grounds it would be much easier to implement and control as the crowds would naturally be filtered down into smaller numbers and specific areas(by tickets to certain areas) and then into the smaller designated controlled areas (the safe standing area). the safe standing areas that are being spoken about on a larger scale are not the same as an old traditional ground or our old Trent end/kop ends - most stadiums would need to have the new standing areas redesigned to the new standards and guidelines - the ones I've seen abroad are very impressive and very safe. If any fans think they are going to be like old 'swaying' and 'surging' terraces its nothing like that,they are quite small controlled sections.

{Ed001's Note - it is safer, you have things called stewards and security nowadays to handle it and ensure they go to the right places. If they are not in place, then it matters not a jot whether you have a flat field or a bowl or whatever, you will have a crush. Or do you think that footie fans don't want to go stand all in one area at grounds?}


13.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 13:14:17
Ed 001 - you buy your ticket for the part of the ground you want to stand in? its not like non league or the old days when youd swop ends at half time? . i'd much rather rely on a controlled ,restricted, safe area than a poorly trained steward or meat head security guard. The proven way to control crowds is to reduce the size of the area (divide the area up)and restrict the number allowed into that area-very easy to do in a football ground not so easy to do at Glastonbury or in the standing area of a indoor arena.
If you think all of the stewards,police and security are well trained professionals and you feel confident relying on them when faced with danger rather than a more fixed control, i'd be very cautious if I was you.
im not having a dig or saying i'm right but its coming from several years direct experience in crowd management and control and its now fuelled by a personal interest in peoples safety at large events.

{Ed001's Note - I know what you are talking about, and I would agree if we were talking about intelligent sensible creatures. Sadly we are not. We are talking about football fans and they are usually drunk and show about as much thought and care for others as they do for ants under their feet. What you need is all of those things, and more, you need the stewards, security guards, police presence to ensure that the divided area can be maintained. Otherwise people just do what they want. They will buy the cheapest ticket and then try and slip in elsewhere etc.

There is no such thing as safe when it comes to crowds, all you can do is reduce risk to the minimum possible. I just don't think people are fully thinking when it comes to this standing area thing. They all seem to think it will magically fix the atmosphere at grounds, even though that is not even close to a solution. The culture has changed at football, it is no longer the same as it was in society either. People no longer make their own entertainment, they expect it to be handed to them on a plate while they watch it through a camera on their phone.}


14.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 13:51:35
Ed-I agree that lots of fans don't really understand what the safe standing areas would be like - it certainly wouldn't fix the atmosphere issue as they are quite spacious standing areas and its a bit like singing at a poorly attended non league game, none of the old crammed in kop ends being lifted when a goal goes in, finishing the game in a completely different area and generally swaying all game.

{Ed001's Note - it is a shame but times moved on and the old packed terraces are gone.}


15.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 14:14:09
You can stand up on a bus or train and that's definitely not safe if the brakes are applied.
Nothing is totally safe accidents do and will happen no matter what.
Ps you can't say all fans are drunk at matches,just look how many cars are parked on a match day,do they all drive home drunk?
It's a minority edd.


16.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 17:12:31
We are back where we started on this issue FF. I agree not everyone turns up drunk. I would think 99% are completely sober.
You say the idiots are in the minority. I again agree with you but it only takes ONE.
An idiot in a seat stands out and can be removed. An idiot in the centre of hundreds of standing supporters can be lethal.
We see things differently but thanks to this site , we can both voice our views.


17.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 17:15:18
Well that lit the blue touch paper? Nice to see that the Elf & Safety brigade lost that one!

Work starts in June so get your season standing tickets in early!


18.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 17:25:05
I think anyone who wants to stand at the match has not worked hard enough during the week. I personally can’t wait to get sat down but then I am getting on a bit now


19.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 17:29:46
Like I said Red. It only takes ONE.


20.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 20:07:14
I'm 60 billabong and I'll tell you this now,my seat tomorrow won't get used,if I do try and sit down I'll miss the match?
Still only 1980 prices so can't grumble


21.) 26 Jan 2018
26 Jan 2018 20:09:49
Gazzi

Clearly adopting your risk management strategy we should all stay at home and watch football on the big screen? Are you a Sky Sports salesman?

Actually it takes a lot more than one to cause a disaster. By my reckoning a few thousand at Hillsboro and Heysel!


22.) 27 Jan 2018
27 Jan 2018 02:09:07
Sorry Eds, can't agree, standing has been done in Germany for years, have a look at Dortmunds famous yellow wall
As pointed out, you can buy a seat and stand all game as everyone in front is doing it
The answer is small controlled areas
Its not like the old days of Kops where people peed down because the toilets were non existent
And yes, I was at Hillsborough too, and yes there was incompetence, not just the 3 mentioned above but a complete lack of stewardship too