28 Apr 2016 12:10:24
Fawaz is not selling up, he is after investment and is in advanced talks with Evangelos Marinakis. The new manager will not be announced until this has gone through. The most likely candidate if this deal goes through would be Poyet however MON remains Fawaz's number one target.

1.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 14:06:53
Just wondering if anyone could help me understand what an investment would achieve? More money into the club, or would this mean Evangelos would be advising Fawaz on decisions etc?

2.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 14:19:21
It was true all along.

The Emporor has no clothes.

3.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 16:49:37
So no 22 your wallets open and you're prepared to put a 100 million into our club. I don't think so. Its about time people stopped hounding people who are prepared to hound out people who are prepared to put up their money into our club. If more fair weather fans put their hands into their pockets and got behind the boys as vocal on the terraces as they do on here. Yees fawaz may be over enthusiiastic and nigel doughty was a an ardent fan and not an idiot. Without their 160 million we would be bankrupt.

4.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 17:11:25
My thoughts to Eke, what is he investing in, ground improvements, players, sponsorship, i reckon he is going to flog us😎.

5.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 17:19:26
I'd buy a football club because people like you tip up every week to give good money for crap.

An owner cannot really lose when he has mugs at his disposal Normal.

Shame you still don't understand it all? Fawaz hasn't spent anything. lol. I know it hurts your tiny brain but it's a loan for a reason and 30 million quid of your fantasy 100 million spend is borrowed against the club.

Fawaz needs investment because he's potless and looking for an easy way out. If he was any good or had the money he'd man up.

Call yourself an owner Fawaz? You can see how big a fan he is now ducky. lol
It can be measured in cold hard cash.

And here's a tip. If you see failure, impropriety and ineptitude call it out or your heading for trouble.

What fearful change resistant nonsense you spout.

6.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 17:26:42
In all honesty, i'm a fan of Fawaz. However what does confuse me is that, i'm pretty sure i read an article which stated he was rich enough to purchase 3 or 4 of the top teams in the world. So why would we need an investment?

7.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 17:31:53
Well said stormingnorman I have just said a similar thing on the banter site.

8.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 17:50:08
Well said norm.

9.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 18:21:04
That's what you call fantasy football.

The lesser spotted east midland ginger parrot probably came up with that one after Fawaz mentioned it.

10.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 18:31:14
Totally agree Norman! No 22? Since you know so much about Forest's problems. Why don't YOU apply for CEO? Fawaz would pay you silly money, and on the other hand you would turn the club around! Win! Win!

11.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 18:50:28
Let me tell you what's going to happen here.

Fawaz is selling the club! What do you think the new investor is buying? You can't take someones money and give them nothing back.
He is at least selling some of the club, but maybe not all of it.
And let's not forget that Abdulaziz already owns a small percentage.

I just hope the new investor takes a controlling stake of at least 51% and puts floppy ears to bed.

IF HE DOESN'T THIS CLUB WILL GO OUT OF EXISTENCE!

Why do I say that?
Because you can get ready for the mother of all boardroom battles when the two fall out over Fawaz's incompetence.
He can't sack a part owner when things don't work out.

Imagine the friction and potential for bills not being paid then.

There will be a struggle for control with debts at least twice what they are now and no one really giving a damn about the team or fans. The focus will be on ousting the other party and the whole club will suffer.

Any part ownership deal is bound to end in tears.

Fawaz better not mess with Mr Greek or he might find himself having a new golden dawn.

12.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 18:51:51
Youll never get through to the fawaz lovers no22.
I see you're not mouthing off about the greek rumours now rogie?

Fawaz is and always has been a phoney. His old girl has probably said she wants her money so he's now frantically searching for people to bail him out.

13.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 18:54:59
No22

Are you not a season ticket holder? If we're all paying money to support our club, why are we mugs, and not you? You think you've got Fawaz sussed, but sounds to me, like you don't really know the full story. You sound like a two bit book keeper, that thinks he can do better than the boss. A proper jobs worth, whose posts seem to just pick on long standing fans.

14.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 19:09:13
Why can't I call myself a mug? It's a mugs game and I'm doing it too!

Here's why I have a problem.

It's down to those pesky numbers again!

Clubs worth 30 million

Bloke buy half @ £15 million

Where do you think you're going to get with £15 million quid? You can't pay a years losses with that. lol AND that's assuming Fawaz even wants to invest that cash or any other into the club.

Ok, the new guy and Fawaz both then inject cash on a like for like basis.

So can you not see that Fawaz is just kicking the can down the road and we'll be lucky if we don't end up with a few more years of mediocre rubbish until they fall out and tear the club apart.

FFP says we can't spend 8 million next season and even less the season after that so has it got so bad that Fawaz won't support his own club to the tune of 8 million a year?

Is he really looking to cut that in half to 4 million a year?

We are a club heading for low spends and boardroom trouble and if you can't see that you really are drunk on Fawaz love potion.

15.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 19:15:51
Your right I apologise unreservedly for letting my frustration boil over into criticism of other fans.

The reason that happens is because people keep coming out with Lemming BS about following the club until we die and letting ruthless snide owners take your money through blind faith.

I am not a book keeper by the way.

Just a CEO who knows that running one business is the same as running another. The faces change, the figures are different, the product is different, but the basic principles for success are the same everywhere.


Honestly, there's housewives running Avon rounds better than the way this club is run.

It is shocking, and I know that no other professional who reads this board will disagree!

16.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 19:20:39
Yes mate also see he doe's not want to end his association with the club either? So one way or another can only be good for the club. you must have been scratching around for weeks untill this rumour popped up again! Lol!

17.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 19:22:16
Why do I get the feeling no.22 doesn't like fawaz?
Your telling us what you think would happen when you don't have a clue like the rest of us.

18.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 19:55:17
I have a lifetimes experience of running companies and can see what's coming.

I don't dislike anyone? I just object to fans paying for a 30 million quid loan every time they pay for a ticket. It is robbery! And plenty on here lapping it up like its gravy.

Fawaz ain't all that but he is a master at playing the hapless fool and raking it in while you're distracted.

If he sold half the club for 15 million how long would that money last?
It wouldn't because Fawaz wouldn't put it back in? Everyone's kicking there heels like Christmas is coming but Fawaz is looking to offload, not get further in?

Why would he drop any money in from the sale?


They would have to agree a funding plan between them but it would have to stick to FFP and the only real benefit would be player swaps.
So fawaz sells half the club, gets to limit his losses and agrees to put in what is required to keep the club afloat. That is not a 20 million spend like some seem to be dreaming.

The bills might get paid on time but that depends on whether Mr control freak let's the investor have any control over the running of the club.


That is why I want this sale to be of a size that means the investor has the majority shareholding. Fawaz can't even get a CEO in, never mind a new owner to look over the books and play around in the back end of the club.

Why would any investor let that happen? Who's going to come in and watch Fawaz throw money about and continue to ruin the club and his investment?

It's madness?

It is bound for disaster. Mr Greek shipping magnate should know that a partnership is the worst ship you can sail in.

19.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 20:49:17
No 22 if you know so much about running businesses you will admit that running afootball club is nothing like running a normal business. Nobody can balance the books and its almost a waiting game for a bit of success and a possible cash injection before you go bust or manage to get shot of a business that you cannot keep propping up. You keep banging on about loans and that fawaz hasn't invested anywhere near the figures that are thrown about but isn't that big business and how your successful companies would make big money? So is your problem that you think fawaz is already making a fortune from us and you're admitting he is a shrewd business man or is he just a crazy guy with too much money who should never have invested in a football club? But all we need to save everything is to find another crazy investor to buy him out?

20.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 21:45:06
I don't dislike anyone? I just object to fans paying for a 30 million quid loan every time they pay for a ticket. It is robbery! And plenty on here lapping it up like its gravy.

Fawaz ain't all that but he is a master at playing the hapless fool and raking it in while you're distracted.
This kind of contradicts what you are saying about fawaz. you say he is potless but is raking it in?! we are running at a loss like we have for the last 15 years so it's nothing new but fawaz puts in 20million a year and in return gets nothing as the club is losing that. yes it's as a loan but he will still not make any money on what he has put in as his loan will be paid back to him but the club will be sold for less than he paid.

21.) 28 Apr 2016
28 Apr 2016 22:06:10
I think that 30m loan has paid for fawaz's holiday to Greece. I saw him book it so I know its true- 3*all inclusive week in the sun-he paid too much for the holiday and got done when he picked his euros up, I got a much better exchange rate at the little booth at the airport. Call yourself a businessman! You can't even book a decent holiday, you'll be at skeggy next! (sorry skeg 😊)

22.) 29 Apr 2016
29 Apr 2016 13:24:48
I think we're all missing a major point here. If we're going to lose in the region of 12 million this year after the 7 million sale of Antonio then our loss would have been 19 million without that sale. Even if we take out loan players and Tesche Wilson and Reid then that would save us 8 million at best. We would have to recruit 6 players to have adecent squad even at 10k would add 3 million of costs back. So even to stand still our losses are likely to be 13 to 14 million well outside what we need to remain out of ffp the following season. It doesn't matter where the money comes from but somebody has to plug that gap. To get down to 6 million target to keep within ffp rules would mean significant selling beyond just Lars and Paterson. Some interesting times ahead whoever foots the bill.

23.) 29 Apr 2016
29 Apr 2016 19:30:05
No 22
Sometimes you cannot push water up hill!
You are absolutely spot on but you know the saying " blinded by love"! It happens to us all unless you are an accountant?
Haha!

24.) 30 Apr 2016
29 Apr 2016 22:48:18
Up the forest.

There's your error. You are equating your potless to Fawaz's potless.
It is a vastly different thing. Not just because of the figures but because of the expenditure that is required to keep the show going.
He is potless. Do you think he'd be seeking investment otherwise? He certainly can't keep up with current spending.
Doesn't mean he's skint in the way we understand it?

You also incorrectly add all the numbers together like all the money belongs to Fawaz but it doesn't?

Some of this is club money being spirited away to Fawaz's pocket whilst the rest is Fawaz's investment (not his personal money- they are different) which is being spent with the condition of an IOU.

Fawaz has borrowed 30 million quid from a bank against the club!

He paid 20 mill for the club

The fans are in effect buying Fawaz a football club and have given him 10 million quid to play with - depending on the difference of the price he paid for the club.

What you have to understand is that he owns a club which he paid Mrs Doughty below market value for.
Forget about the bank loan paying off his stake for now.
The club is an asset and still worth it's money because the club has a market value, so no loss there! He still owns it.
That would be like you buying a house and writing all the money off and saying when I die ill give it to the gov or the dogs home or not valuing it.

Just because the money was spent doesn't mean it disappears? It just turns into an income producing asset. The fans provide Fawaz with an income for his trouble too.
Yes it is all capital outflow, but it's not like a loss in your world? It can be leveraged in the same way your future labour can be in your potential future earnings.

Fawaz is just like a buy to let landlord.
Only difference is that he's bought the house (prob for less than market value) then borrowed 30 million against the house you're living in and is getting you to pay it back in the rent.
Nothing illegal in it but you have to realise one very important point.

The revenue comes from the club first and foremost! The loan gets paid first, they always do. That and the tax man. You'll find that out if we go bust. ;)
All this talk of investors coming in. He already has an investor on board! Whoever wrote that loan is an investor!

But the loan is being paid off by the ticket receipts at the gate.

Any money then spent over and above income is written down as a loss because the club ultimately makes a loss.
No matter that Fawaz pays the bills? The fact is that the loan is paid for by the club. Worst of all the amounts roll over into Fawaz's IOU's
It is a cost so lands on the business side and removes revenue from the club.

Example. If the club makes 12 mil a year turnover but a loan is introduced @ 2 million a year interest plus some repayment of the principle £30 million sum, you have a 2 million reduction in the money you can spend from your turnover because you now have this huge loan to pay off.

So 12 million available to spend reduces to 10 million to spend because the loan is already allocated.
This also makes the losses look bigger by 2 million because the revenue has been removed.

But you then have to ask yourself where did the 30 million go? If he spent it on players and running the club he has just billed you twice for spending your own money!
****ing genius but you still can't see it?
The fact is that the loan isn't counted as income? After we spend 12 million or whatever is generated by the club it gets written as an IOU.
All Fawaz has to do is own the club long enough for the loan to be paid by you and the 30 million he pocketed just gets forgotten.


So to sum up.

He has a club he has paid for. No loss there.

He has had 30 million quid of the clubs cash which he likely paid for the losses over and above the income of the club. He didn't pay that out of his pocket? The club is paying that loss off with its own money and then being sent an IOU for its trouble!
He has taken 30 million quid out of the club, spent it and billed you back for 30 million quid in an IOU. All the while claiming that he has spent his own money.



Whatever else he has spent is his spending. Do you want me to be sad for a man who lives a jet set lifestyle and spends his cash how he likes? You all look like it as if it's a tragedy?
You all equate it to your own situations but they are nothing like each other. Spent is not spent in Fawaz land.

It is just money moved from one balance sheet to another. It is not spending? It is signing cheques, investing money, using a club as a store of value, and playing the long game.

You can't see it because you equate it to money going out of your pocket. It doesn't work like that in this case?

It is no different to you taking money out of your pocket and burying it in the garden for safe keeping. Yeah you could forget it or lose it or whatever but it's still there. You still have it but Fawaz's garden grows big money trees in it when he plants cash and yours does not.

Billy and his brother in law Jim knew! Once they figured it out they engineered a financially beneficial way out.


If the above figures and assumptions are wrong you would have to then assume that Fawaz has spent the following amounts:

THESE CANNOT BE DENIED!

20 mill buying the club (I'll round it down to make it easy)

30 mill of loan money belonging to the club

15 mill of transfer fees belonging to the club

48 million club revenue @ 12 million PA x 4 seasons

67 million of his own money. (claimed personal loans in accounts)

= 180 MILLION POUNDS!

And could be more depending on what he paid for the club.

Can you now see how this doesn't add up even though they are the basic figures?
You talk about him being a good business man but if he's spent 180 million pounds plus and you can't even see where he's been apart from a big telly and a squad of 24 (inc kids) then we have a problem.

It is also possible that the club owes money for staged payments in players contracts and other such things too.

So if anyone still thinks this guy is a good owner, Do me a favour and stop cheerleading because I now feel quite ill.

I thought Derby were the wooly ones but Fawaz has got more than enough wool to cover some people eyes.

Alarm bells should be ringing!

25.) 30 Apr 2016
30 Apr 2016 07:24:48
Blimey 22,alarm bells are certainly ringing here-ive just woke up 😊 what a joy to wake up to a little light reading. You are not telling us anything new and to be honest I don't recall anyone on here saying fawaz is a good businessman, in fact I think anyone who buys into a football club must be mad! But he is in charge of our club, he has invested in us and for him to get any form of return we do need to do well-here is where you fall down, who is banging his door down to buy him out or invest? Would they be any better?
Im not a fawaz lover or a hater but he is in charge of the club i love and i have got some respect for him. Its easy to point out problems but not so easy to resolve them but you'd know this from your long career in running successful businesses.

26.) 30 Apr 2016
30 Apr 2016 11:41:30
The mantra of Fawaz being a good businessman is all over this board time and again.
Problem is that it's a wild assumption from people who just think its true because somehow he's managed to find himself in control of a load of money. lol

So I'm going to drop the figures gain for anyone who couldn't be bothered to read the above. ;)


If the above figures and assumptions are wrong you would have to then assume that Fawaz has spent the following amounts:

THESE CANNOT BE DENIED!

20 mill buying the club (I'll round it down to make it easy)

30 mill of loan money belonging to the club

15 mill of transfer fees belonging to the club

48 million club revenue @ 12 million PA x 4 seasons

67 million of his own money. (claimed personal loans in accounts)

= 180 MILLION POUNDS!

And could be more depending on what he paid for the club.

Can you now see how this doesn't add up even though they are the basic figures?
You talk about him being a good business man but if he's spent 180 million pounds plus and you can't even see where he's been apart from a big telly and a squad of 24 (inc kids) then we have a problem.

What are your thoughts on these figures? lol.

27.) 30 Apr 2016
30 Apr 2016 12:51:56
Those figures bore me now and I don't even know what you are trying to say? Is he a fraud? Is he making money out of us? Is he a good businessman but shouldn't be running forest? Is he a poor businessman and shouldn't be running forest? Is he wasting money or making money?
Anyway I hope you enjoy the game 😊.

28.) 30 Apr 2016
30 Apr 2016 14:42:24
You still don't get it do you?


FFS?


It ain't that complicated if you take the time to understand it.

The club has been done for £30 million and maybe even 60 million depending on how the loan and the IOU's are written down.

If you don't think that's serious then you clearly don't have the clubs interests at heart and would sooner blindly carry on as is.

Funny thing is that if you take the £60 million figure out of the above numbers you magically get £120 million which is much nearer to what the accounts show.

29.) 30 Apr 2016
30 Apr 2016 18:41:12
Isn't ffp not 😊.